Sway Bar Installation.....
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:21 pm
Re-posted....Terry did a sway bar install back in late 2006 and the following are his posts during that install process....
Stay Tuned as we'll tweak this and perhaps install some text of the step in between the pictures.....Terry, where are you...??
Post #1....
Ok. Here's the answer from the horses mouth. I called Hellwig. The
company who builds the best anti sway bars on the market. They have
been in business for over 50 years. I talked to an engineer there and
we discussed the advantages and disadvantages of air bags and anti
sway bars. They manufacture both. The air bags are primarily for
increasing load capacity to maintain ride height and anti sway bars
prevent side sway and roll as experienced with cross winds and
pressure waves caused by an ovwertaking vehicle such as a semi truck.
Anti sway bars do just that while maintaining ride. So...I just
ordered a set of anti sway bars from shox.com (best price) and if you
are interested the part numbers are 7604 front and 7183 rear.
Terry
Post #2....
Well, I picked up the van yesterday to drop it off at my son's so we
can put the shocks and anti sway bars on and would you believe two
mechanics and I totally missed the front sway bar?!? I can't believe
I am such a dork!!! Thank God I'm not a shuttle engineer. I have to
chock it up to my personal Menehune (Hawaiian elf) that keeps cloaking
things. You know...Now you see it now you don't. I will still
install the new bar in front too as the replacement is much heavier.
I will give a report on the outcome when it's done.
Terry
Post #3....Dave
All Ford vans, either E250 or E350, have front sway bars that
are 1 inch diameter..
Vince is the only one among us that has a diesel in his rig and Ford
may have used a larger diameter bar in those vans....Vince..???
The Helwig bars that are available for our vans are 1 1/8 diameter
for the front replacement and the rear bar they offer is 1 1/4
diameter. This upgrade should make a noticable difference in handling
The idea of Air Bags to accomplish stability just isn't the way to go.
Air Bags when inflated either to increase stability or raise the
vehicle in the rear greatly affect the spring-rate which results is a
much stiffer ride...the freeway system in the lower 48 is bad enough
without adding Air Bags..! Air Bags are a costly crutch for an
Airstream B-van.
The 1999 B190 I brought back from Florida last spring had them on the
rear for some reason...I jerked them out the parking lot at Cabalas
in Sidney Nebraska. As I've had several Airstream B190's I knew that
it could ride much better....huge difference
If you need to raise your rig in the rear there is a very easy way,
that will not affect the spring-rate, to do that with OEM Ford or
aftermarket parts...
I hope Terry will show us some pictures,in particular,of the rear
application he is about to do..
Dave...
Post #4....Vince
Dave wrote...
Vince is the only one among us that has a diesel in his rig and Ford
may have used a larger diameter bar in those vans....Vince..???
Vince wrote...
Yep, came from factory with 1-1/8 sway bars and slightly heavier coils on shocks for the diesel. I find it rides like a dream.
Post #5....
Vince, you're saying "bars"...does your rig have a swaybar on the
rear..??... (the bars are one continuous piece from left-to-right)
1-1/8" dia, so that tells me that Ford made an OEM bar 1/8" dia larger
for diesel rigs..
Dave...
Post #6....
Well, after 2 days we got the job done and the results were as
expected. The van went from extreme understeer to fairly neutral
steering and now very little push from large trucks or crosswinds.
I am very happy with the results. No change in ride or ride height
either. I will post pictures soon. My son and I completed the sway
bars in less than 3 hours. Very straight forward and no surprises.
Front one is basic bolt on. Just 4 bolts in the front and assemble
the links (bushings and spacers 5 minutes) and U bolts over the I
beams with attaching brackets for the links.
Rear bar required drilling one 1/2 inch hole on each side through
frame (use a sharp bit) and U bolts over the rear axle with
attaching brackets. Very straight forward and definately a backyard
mechanic job.
Now the real PITA was the shock removal and installation. Ford uses
a conglomeration of whatever is found in the bolt and nut box
(metric, SAE and Wentworth!) so you have to go out and buy a new set
of Snap on tools as nobody else makes what you need to do this
otherwise simple job. You won't find 18MM in your Sears metric open
end wrench set!!! The top mounts are the issue. Seems that shocks
were an afterthought as they didn't leave enough room to get
wrenches on them. We finally ended up cutting off the dust shields
and grinding off the chrome on the shafts so we could get a grip
with some Vise Grips to hold the shaft from turning. A torch would
have been quicker but I have a fear of working right next to a gas
tank with acetylene torches... It only took 7 hours to remove the
shocks.
Now to install the Bilsteins. I grabbed the directions and after 3
hours of interpreting German to English I got started. Took out the
rear shocks and guess what? No nut on the top to hold the shaft
from turning. Turns out you have to fabricate a very short 5MM
allen wrench to fit into the top of the shaft to keep it from
turning! Did any of the Dumb A-- engineers ever try to install one
of these? I'm sure NOT. Now I like Fords but they have gotten to
the point that even something as simple as a shock absorber ( which
used to be a 5 minute job) lists several Ford part number tools to
facilitate installation. TGI an not a mechanic anymore. You wonder
why it costs you a grand for a set of shocks with installation and
all the mechanics now have motorized tool boxes just to move the ton
of tools around the shop!
Below is information regarding oversteer and understeer so you can
see the difference and the results.
Terminal handling balance is a function of front/rear relative roll
resistance (suspension stiffness), front/rear weight distribution,
and front/rear tire traction. A front-heavy vehicle with low rear
roll stiffness (from soft springing and/or undersized or nonexistent
rear anti-roll bars) will have a tendency to terminal understeer:
its front tires, being more heavily loaded even in the static
condition, will reach the limits of their adhesion before the rear
tires, and thus will develop larger slip angles. Front-wheel drive
cars are also prone to understeer because not only are they usually
front-heavy, transmitting power through the front wheels also
reduces their grip available for cornering. This often leads to
a "shuddering" action in the front wheels which can be felt in the
car as grip is suddenly being changed from planting the engines
power on the road and steering. This is why rear wheel drive cars
tend to handle better as the rear wheels main job is to handle the
engines torque and the front wheels to steer.
One more thing regarding air bags. Air suspension that is used in
heavy trucks and motorhomes and busses is quite different from the
airbags being used as ad ons. One is the primary suspension ( no
springs) and the other is only to increase load capacity with a
resulting increase in ride stiffness which will also reduce lateral
roll as the stiffness increases.
Terry
Post #7....
Stay Tuned as we'll tweak this and perhaps install some text of the step in between the pictures.....Terry, where are you...??
Post #1....
Ok. Here's the answer from the horses mouth. I called Hellwig. The
company who builds the best anti sway bars on the market. They have
been in business for over 50 years. I talked to an engineer there and
we discussed the advantages and disadvantages of air bags and anti
sway bars. They manufacture both. The air bags are primarily for
increasing load capacity to maintain ride height and anti sway bars
prevent side sway and roll as experienced with cross winds and
pressure waves caused by an ovwertaking vehicle such as a semi truck.
Anti sway bars do just that while maintaining ride. So...I just
ordered a set of anti sway bars from shox.com (best price) and if you
are interested the part numbers are 7604 front and 7183 rear.
Terry
Post #2....
Well, I picked up the van yesterday to drop it off at my son's so we
can put the shocks and anti sway bars on and would you believe two
mechanics and I totally missed the front sway bar?!? I can't believe
I am such a dork!!! Thank God I'm not a shuttle engineer. I have to
chock it up to my personal Menehune (Hawaiian elf) that keeps cloaking
things. You know...Now you see it now you don't. I will still
install the new bar in front too as the replacement is much heavier.
I will give a report on the outcome when it's done.
Terry
Post #3....Dave
All Ford vans, either E250 or E350, have front sway bars that
are 1 inch diameter..
Vince is the only one among us that has a diesel in his rig and Ford
may have used a larger diameter bar in those vans....Vince..???
The Helwig bars that are available for our vans are 1 1/8 diameter
for the front replacement and the rear bar they offer is 1 1/4
diameter. This upgrade should make a noticable difference in handling
The idea of Air Bags to accomplish stability just isn't the way to go.
Air Bags when inflated either to increase stability or raise the
vehicle in the rear greatly affect the spring-rate which results is a
much stiffer ride...the freeway system in the lower 48 is bad enough
without adding Air Bags..! Air Bags are a costly crutch for an
Airstream B-van.
The 1999 B190 I brought back from Florida last spring had them on the
rear for some reason...I jerked them out the parking lot at Cabalas
in Sidney Nebraska. As I've had several Airstream B190's I knew that
it could ride much better....huge difference
If you need to raise your rig in the rear there is a very easy way,
that will not affect the spring-rate, to do that with OEM Ford or
aftermarket parts...
I hope Terry will show us some pictures,in particular,of the rear
application he is about to do..
Dave...
Post #4....Vince
Dave wrote...
Vince is the only one among us that has a diesel in his rig and Ford
may have used a larger diameter bar in those vans....Vince..???
Vince wrote...
Yep, came from factory with 1-1/8 sway bars and slightly heavier coils on shocks for the diesel. I find it rides like a dream.
Post #5....
Vince, you're saying "bars"...does your rig have a swaybar on the
rear..??... (the bars are one continuous piece from left-to-right)
1-1/8" dia, so that tells me that Ford made an OEM bar 1/8" dia larger
for diesel rigs..
Dave...
Post #6....
Well, after 2 days we got the job done and the results were as
expected. The van went from extreme understeer to fairly neutral
steering and now very little push from large trucks or crosswinds.
I am very happy with the results. No change in ride or ride height
either. I will post pictures soon. My son and I completed the sway
bars in less than 3 hours. Very straight forward and no surprises.
Front one is basic bolt on. Just 4 bolts in the front and assemble
the links (bushings and spacers 5 minutes) and U bolts over the I
beams with attaching brackets for the links.
Rear bar required drilling one 1/2 inch hole on each side through
frame (use a sharp bit) and U bolts over the rear axle with
attaching brackets. Very straight forward and definately a backyard
mechanic job.
Now the real PITA was the shock removal and installation. Ford uses
a conglomeration of whatever is found in the bolt and nut box
(metric, SAE and Wentworth!) so you have to go out and buy a new set
of Snap on tools as nobody else makes what you need to do this
otherwise simple job. You won't find 18MM in your Sears metric open
end wrench set!!! The top mounts are the issue. Seems that shocks
were an afterthought as they didn't leave enough room to get
wrenches on them. We finally ended up cutting off the dust shields
and grinding off the chrome on the shafts so we could get a grip
with some Vise Grips to hold the shaft from turning. A torch would
have been quicker but I have a fear of working right next to a gas
tank with acetylene torches... It only took 7 hours to remove the
shocks.
Now to install the Bilsteins. I grabbed the directions and after 3
hours of interpreting German to English I got started. Took out the
rear shocks and guess what? No nut on the top to hold the shaft
from turning. Turns out you have to fabricate a very short 5MM
allen wrench to fit into the top of the shaft to keep it from
turning! Did any of the Dumb A-- engineers ever try to install one
of these? I'm sure NOT. Now I like Fords but they have gotten to
the point that even something as simple as a shock absorber ( which
used to be a 5 minute job) lists several Ford part number tools to
facilitate installation. TGI an not a mechanic anymore. You wonder
why it costs you a grand for a set of shocks with installation and
all the mechanics now have motorized tool boxes just to move the ton
of tools around the shop!
Below is information regarding oversteer and understeer so you can
see the difference and the results.
Terminal handling balance is a function of front/rear relative roll
resistance (suspension stiffness), front/rear weight distribution,
and front/rear tire traction. A front-heavy vehicle with low rear
roll stiffness (from soft springing and/or undersized or nonexistent
rear anti-roll bars) will have a tendency to terminal understeer:
its front tires, being more heavily loaded even in the static
condition, will reach the limits of their adhesion before the rear
tires, and thus will develop larger slip angles. Front-wheel drive
cars are also prone to understeer because not only are they usually
front-heavy, transmitting power through the front wheels also
reduces their grip available for cornering. This often leads to
a "shuddering" action in the front wheels which can be felt in the
car as grip is suddenly being changed from planting the engines
power on the road and steering. This is why rear wheel drive cars
tend to handle better as the rear wheels main job is to handle the
engines torque and the front wheels to steer.
One more thing regarding air bags. Air suspension that is used in
heavy trucks and motorhomes and busses is quite different from the
airbags being used as ad ons. One is the primary suspension ( no
springs) and the other is only to increase load capacity with a
resulting increase in ride stiffness which will also reduce lateral
roll as the stiffness increases.
Terry
Post #7....